I am a staunch supporter of George Carlin's comment on arguments - "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
Of course there are two sides to every argument - Adam Gopnik says "Maybe I’m strange and perverse, but I’ve always thought there was something sexy about a compelling argument." (I'd never heard of him either but I like the quote).
Arguments can be very helpful in certain situations. Believe it or not, there was a time in politics in the USA when arguments were very good thinigs, and much was accomplished with the judicious use of arguments. Why? Because compromise happened and legislation and appointents happened. Of course, in today's climate the political world here seems to be black and white. Both sides are so dug in they have not noticed the tunnel is collapsing and nobody is winning, especially the public. Compromise has left the building along with civil discourse, and so we are left with nothing but the arguments. Spokespersons on both sides simply puff up, stick their chests out and claim it is their way or the highway.
Wikipedia says "arguments attempt to show that something was, is, will be, or should be the case". That seems to agree with the notion that compromise is a good thing but then there is the study of statistics wherein there are three different averages. If ever there was a case to argue, determining whether the average of whatever you are counting is a mean, median or a mode is it.
Have you ever noticed how a salesman argues the finer points of whatever he/she is trying to sell you? Remenber the salesman's credo - if you cannot dazzlethem with brilliance, dazzle them with BS - argument in the form of the sales pitch.
Family arguments.
Political debate/arguments at their best.
Are there ethics in arguments? Based upon the last three years of politics here I'd have to say there are no ethics. Both sides lie so often the truth actually becomes the lie - or so it seems. At least it seems that about half of the population will assume it is true. The Big Lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique and logical trick used effectively in Germany during the rise of the Nazis and now it is being used here in the USA to disassemble the structures within government that hinder (so they say) capitalism and its free markets and inpimge upon individual rights aka gun - specifically assault type weapons - and everyone having the RIGHT to own one (or more). Then there is the abortion issue - arguments abound for both sides of that one and a large percentage of the gun owners think it is fine to regulate a woman's body. I am 100% pro choice - and if it is a "god" issue that is between the woman and her "god" - no government should have that control over someone's body.
Its clear to me that arguments are part and parcel of our culture these days. Arguments are used in mathematics to establish facts, they occur when someone is trying to sell you something or convince you thay are right about something and they are also used as a form of sport aka debating. Though the arguments can be irritating, frustrating and often times fun, it behooves us to understand how and why they are valuable and we should all learn how to handle arguments.
That's it for a shack-take on this week's topic. See you next week for another 2-on-1 blog where Ramana and I write on the same subject.
George Caitlin may well be right. But how do you determine, IN ADVANCE, whether your partner in discussion will turn out to be an idiot? For all I know I may be the one (quod erat demonstrandum).
ReplyDeleteI do believe arguments are good for us. A challenge. Like running with someone else, not necessarily in a competitive way but an inspired, pulling you along way. Yes, at school, in my teens, when I became more consciously aware of the ways of the world, I'd always choose as my running partner (we had to sprint in twos) the one who was the indisputably fastest in our class. Oh, did her heels in front of me pull me along. Bettering my best. Her name was Susanne. Wonder what became of her.
As I said over at Ramana's, a discussion/an argument stands and falls on how amiably we manage to wind it down.
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Civility rules -I think wr are on the same page
DeleteYou and I are in the same boat except for semantics. I would rather debate, discuss and compromise than argue.
ReplyDeleteonce again upon reading this...
ReplyDeleteexcept that it is something I wouldn't wish for my worst enemy in this current political climate...
you should run for office.
in a nutshell:
" are so dug in they have not noticed the tunnel is collapsing and nobody is winning, especially the public. "
There are arguments and then there are arguments. I enjoyed those we had in debate, requiring we had to alternate defending pro and con positions. Seems as though rational discussion ala debates on issues, including the ones you mention, is lacking.
ReplyDelete